Reservation and Intelligence
Vatsan has written about THAMBRAAS and reservation issue.
I know i have 144ed myself from this topic but felt like writing some parts which i have not written before in my blog. So i thought let me break my own 144 and post it here for once.
I personally think reservation is the most destructive thing that could’ve happened to the Contemporary Indian society.
Those who have the time and effort should go and find out the number of backward castes in the 40-50s and now. They would realise that the number of communities in the backward category has actually swelled over the years.
Those in the forward community has successfully been able to get declared as backward and those in the backward has moved to Most Backward.
Vazhga reservation!!
But I hate reservation for an entirely different reason. Assume you have two children, say identical twins for convenience sake, tell X that he is strong and so can run for 10 minutes, tell the other Y that since he is weak its enough he runs for only 5 minutes. Chances are, in the course of time X will be really strong and can endure enough and Y will be relatively weaker.
So psychologically, by expecting lesser performance from backward communities, we are crippling them in their psyche. Its just another way of saying ‘you are inferior’.
The best way to bring equality is by affirming in their minds that all are capable and equal. So long as this belief is not instilled, reservation policy will defeat the very purpose of its creation. What people from backward classes and backward areas need is some support in terms of information, guidance not some quota of seats. All backward community guys would do well to realise about something called 4 minute mile barrier. Its toughest when you are doing something for the first time among your community circles. Like say getting into IIT in merit.
After that it just becomes a routine.
Vatsan has mentioned “he knows he cant compete against the superior intelligence of the Brahmin and the Forward communities”
This is classic case of conditioning.
What about children where one of the parent is a brahmin and the other non-brahmin? Half-intelligent and half-dumb is it?
For starters, the word intelligence will connote a wider meaning than getting good grades by mugging. There is a lot of research going on in the areas of cognitive psychology. Those who have time can search for one Howard Gardner and his concept of Multiple Intelligence.
According to this concept, Intelligence can be classified into
Visual/Spatial Intelligence
Verbal/Linguistic Intelligence
Logical/Mathematical Intelligence
Bodily/Kinesthetic Intelligence
Musical/Rhythmic Intelligence
Interpersonal Intelligence
Intrapersonal Intelligence
Going by this theory, if Ramanujamwas a genius, so was Mahatma Gandhi or Ilayaraja or Michael Jordan.
If there is one aspect where forward community guys score, it’s in the network in the collective information they have. For eg. I never knew about one NID when I was in twelfth. But my brahmin friend did. This is because his someone’s someone’s someone had done a course there. Whereas my someone’s someone’s someone’s was invariably running a jewellery shop in madurai and thought that was the coolest thing on earth. This can be easily traced to one’s ancestors having an advantage in terms of education.
Now what with google, even some idiot in chennai (me) can talk about Howard Gardner. So that gap is fast closing down.
Regarding reservations for Brahmins…When I am dead against the concept of reservation, the question of reservation for Brahmins do not arise.
More than anything if this THAMBRAAS will put up a united face and put an end to all the brahmin bashing happening in all the media, I will be very happy. But then as monu has rightly pointed out, there is just too much gossiping and politiking among the brahmin community, not to mention elitism. Anyway its their business and let them do in the manner they deem fit.
December 28th, 2005 at 8:10 pm
Great post again PK. People may debate on the virtues of the Brahmin community but such debates apart, they have always been the targets for any so called “foward-community” bashings. That is only because they don’t retaliate. Periyar has often remarked that Brahmins are kattumirandigal (barbaric). Sad that he did not have the courage to tell the same about other forward castes down south in Tamilnadu when their notoreity was not far behind in giving coconut shells instead of tea glasses, burning down the lower caste men’s houses, deprieving drinking water, banishing and obviously man-slaughter!
When the reservation policy was forumulated during independence, the cause was genuine and it was envisaged that there would (should) be no need for reservation 50 years hence but what is the state today? That shows the extent of politicizing a noble cause.
December 28th, 2005 at 9:38 pm
I like your neutral view. I dont believe intelligence is related to your caste determined by birth which you dont have control of.
Current reservation is just another way of saying ‘you are inferior’
- well said. Same thoughts. These politicians are just doing more harm rather than reassuring.
Irrespective of Brahmin/ forward caste are not - any suppression in the name of reservation will only make you more resilient and set your target standards high for adapting self in any political/social standards.
December 28th, 2005 at 9:44 pm
I was at the meeting. I never thought this much crowd will turn over.. a little more than 1.5 lakhs.
This is really important..Its not just the reservation. If some lousy director shows a Mami dancing a Kuthu song, and if thats deliberately done to bash The Brahmins.. i want to kick that fellas ass and drive him out.. But i need back up. There was no point in one man shouting.. Thanks to this meeting, now any brahmin will have the guts to question.
December 28th, 2005 at 9:49 pm
@ravi
exactly. periyar was always addressed as E V Ramaswamy “Naicker”.
Some of the protests he led from the front r important and shud be viewed in the overall prevailing climate of those times.
But some other ideas ‘keemayanam’, singling out brahmins does not stand merit.
caste discrimination is there in all sections of the society. why not attack the rest of the fwd castes?
December 28th, 2005 at 9:52 pm
@dubuks
Danks:) i totally agree to yr point. manam irundhaal margam undu - with or without reservation.
the athlete keeps jumping higher hurdles. the higher the hurdles, the better the athlete:)
December 28th, 2005 at 9:55 pm
@keerthi
We’ll see and all the best:)
(i’ve told this often)
Thitradhu ellam thititu mylapore la unga aalai nikka vecha vote podadheenga…
thats all i can say as an outsider
December 28th, 2005 at 10:14 pm
PK-
valid and neutral post.
I agree with you on reservation.
But alas we all know politicians will never take that off.
December 29th, 2005 at 2:23 am
Reservations were brought for a reason which has failed to live up to expectations. The target audience became a moving target and on the way the Bull’s eye was lost.! This is MHO.
I’ve been bitten by the bug too..though I don’t want to fillup the comment section here.
But they way it is going…pretty soon every other caste/creed will get under the Backward/SC/ST category.!!
Life goes on…world is round..it goes around..what goes around comes around…Down the line in another say 50 years.!!! Brahmins will probably reach the BC/SC/ST status thanks to all these reservation systems..!!
This is an interesting topic and will cause a lot of flames.! If I caused any…!! maybe its the experience.
December 29th, 2005 at 10:09 am
Reservation in MHO is supposed to be based on the financial viability of a family, if you dont have any money, the Govt should be providing extra help in the form of family pension, free and compulsory education etc. TAMBRAS should be proactive to provide for the people in the Brahmin community who are financially deprived, I have seen many Kovil pujaris depending on the daily livelihood by what they collect in the archanai thattu.
Let TAMBRAS do something for that by fighting with the Govt, special education, more grants etc.
Instead of doing that, if these guys also jump in the present reservation system by demanding 15%, its never gonna happen. And to make tamil moviemakers stop portraying the Brahmin as a weakling, why, because he eats thayir saadham. Eppo oru brahmanan vandaalum - adi vaangindu thaan poraan, ilai maami super kuthu dance aadittu poraa.
December 29th, 2005 at 10:47 am
First thing :
Please revoke your 144 list. What will be left to talk about ? From your postings I think you are too opinionated to keep posting about things like “you have to check out the strawberry shortcake at bennys, reminds me of autumn”.
Have you heard that “Tagudu” song in the Satyaraj movie (I think Mahanadigan) ? That song is awesome - it captures the spirit of politics today like no other.
Reservations in TN are an entirely different story. No person from any other state can even hope to understand it.
A backward caste in TN is not necessarily backward in any sense economical, educational, political, or historical. They just have more “Tagudu” than others.
You can take elite schools like American, Billabong, Sishya, or even Montfort and Lovedale. You will be hard pressed to find a single brahmin kid there. Can you really call these kids backward ? They have real Englishmen teach them English !
As far as intelligence goes, Brahmins could only get 40 medical seats out of 220 in the open category. So that means either they are not trying or they are getting beaten fair and square by OBCs.
The sad thing is that at the end of the day, the entire Dravidian movement is about upper castes. Even if every brahmin were made to exit tamilnadu, it wouldnt make an iota of difference to the *real* backward castes.
December 29th, 2005 at 11:51 am
@ganesh
adu enna neutral? first gear second gear madhiri?
danks:)
December 29th, 2005 at 11:54 am
@narayanan sir
exactly:)
December 29th, 2005 at 12:09 pm
deepak
nee pottadhileye idaanda best comment.
very true!
‘ve seen many brahmin priests suffer in places like srivilliputhur.
show the 10 bucks and its a fortue for them
u r right. in a high lvevel conference they shud’ve higlighted those issues’ pannnaangalanu therila…
December 29th, 2005 at 1:00 pm
Prabhu,
Relevant post & well written. My POV is that, in this increasingly globalising & competitive world where only merit will be the criterion, its not going to matter about ones antecedents, whether one is from a forward caste, backward caste, an SC, an ST etc. People abroad, while admiring our skills, are also having a good laugh behind us at our backwardness in coining & implementing the word ‘caste’. High time Indians realised what a ‘divisive’ people we are in the name of religion & caste! Its time we freed our conditioned & shallow minds !!
December 29th, 2005 at 1:49 pm
@vivek
by and large what u say is true.
am one of the most opinionated guys..
but sometimes these things get too far.. adaan.
and your comments makes lot of sense.
December 29th, 2005 at 4:05 pm
PK - I didn’t do much of my studies in India and have never worked there, so in a way the reservations policy hasn’t affected me to the extent that it has others here, so my views are likely to be different.
I personally think reservations makes sense to a certain extent if managed properly and aimed at particular groups such as certain tribes etc, reserving 60 odd percent as it is now makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. My one curious observations is, why do we only hear one particular forward community protesting and not the others? Or am I just so out of touch that I have not heard the other protests?
Uma
December 29th, 2005 at 10:51 pm
Uma - There are no more forward castes left :-), jokes apart, I think everyone else have a way to get re-classified into one of the sub-castes and thus garner the benefits.
December 29th, 2005 at 11:07 pm
@uma
i’ve been searching the net for the past few hours to find any info. one website says pillai’s are forward community. but i dunno if they come under reservation r not.
naatukottai chettiars are another classification. but again they come under BC.
From the way it looks, i think prem is right:)
December 29th, 2005 at 11:08 pm
@prem
true:)
December 30th, 2005 at 12:24 am
PK - Here is the BC list
http://www.tn.gov.in/bcmbcmw
/bclist.htm
And here is some interesting information on criteria used
http://www.tn.gov.in/bcmbcmw
/bccomm.htm
December 30th, 2005 at 12:45 am
Here is another interesting data point
http://www.tn.gov.in/policynotes/
bc_mbc_welfare.htm
The percentage of population which doesn’t have reservation is actually a minority. Am I reading that correctly !!. Looks terribly wrong to me.
Also if you co-relate the criteria used and the percentage of population under reservation, Tamilnadu must be the most backward in terms of economy and education, which is not the case.
December 30th, 2005 at 2:40 am
This post has been removed by the author.
December 30th, 2005 at 2:43 am
PK,
Nalla article. Good neutral viewpoints.
“So psychologically, by expecting lesser performance from backward communities, we are crippling them in their psyche. Its just another way of saying ‘you are inferior’”
Althought I agree with the concept, I am not sure how much it applies here. Nobody IMHO would pay attention to what the government calls them, or how they get categorized on a government level. If on a family level, they have the right motivation, have the right friends, and decent resources, that should make what the government calls them, irrelevant. If on the contrary, their parents/friends/society think they are not “strong” enough and, in due time, like you say, they actually turn out “weak”. But outside of these elements, it would be difficult to cripple a child’s psyche.
My 0.02$ on this topic: The idea of a reservation from what I understand, is to be able to get to a state where we won’t need reservations in the future. In other words, to balance out the inherent/caused difference in intelligence/skill level that existed 2-3 generations before us. But what is sad to see is that, these reservation policies are now tools in the hands of politicians used almost exclusively to gain political mileage. The spirit of the concept is lost and the goal that this concept was set to meet is still as far away from realization as it originally was !
December 30th, 2005 at 3:42 am
PK
politicians in tamil nadu has been expoliting this anti brahmin thing a lot. For every failures of theirs they simply point to tambras as cause of all, is this way run govt & politics ?!!
how could less than 5% be threatning everyone.?!
The pithamagan of tn politics,octogenarian recently made some nasty statements against this community,sad state of affairs.
But then a state where it says if you see snake and brahmin,kill the latter first, this shouldn’t come as surprise.
December 30th, 2005 at 5:00 am
Prabu,
I am not sure what is the point of this post. There is really no clear cut analysis on your post, most of what you have written has little relevance to your topic.
The fact that only barely 30 of the 400 odd Open competition medical seats go to FCs last few years show that reservation has been a tremendous factor in terms of neutralising the ancestral advantages. As of now, TN is probably the only state where you can see the disparities narrowed down across the communities. The conditions are ripe to banish reservation altogether within another 10-15 years
December 30th, 2005 at 8:05 am
@Prem
thanks for the links. And also if u happen to observe the cut-off marks (which still is the golden yardstick which determines whether one is intellligent or not, that is a diff. issue)
the diff between OC cutoff and BC cutoff is usually very very negligible.
and as vivek pointed out, its not like they r doing bad in any way at all.
if anything the stats disspell the ‘brahmins r superior and the rest r afraid of them bcos of that’ theory proposed by others.
as a first step we can follow the way IITs and IIMs practice reservation. i remember they having reservation only for SC/STs.
that is the way to go IMHO
December 30th, 2005 at 8:14 am
@dinesh
‘neutral’ na enna? for me neutrality means keeping mum. saying nothing.
According to me, someone who voices his opinion on something can’t be neutral:)correct me if i am wrong:)
that apart, a person who got into something in quota wud always know at the back of his mind that he did not fight the competition the way others r doing. he might be really good but he is made to believe less of himself.
enammo enakku apdi daan thonichu…
i agree to what u say.
December 30th, 2005 at 8:15 am
@ganesh
I agree and understand yr point:)
December 30th, 2005 at 8:17 am
@talkative man
if as u say the other BCs r better, is it not time to remove the reservation quota? why 10/15 yrs down the line?
December 30th, 2005 at 10:17 am
Prabu,
Now WHERE in the world did I make such a blatant generalization??? I generally stay away from denigrating choice of words like “better”. I brought in that example to show how a little levelling goes a long way in bringing egalitarian results.
I don’t foresee any political party having the courage to change the system anywhere in the near future. Personally I have reconciled myself to the fact that meritocracy will never come in, and my proposal is that the 31% OC quota should not include non-OCs, that would heighten intra-community competition and be more representative of the overall demographic.
December 30th, 2005 at 2:22 pm
PK - I appreciate your way of analysing facts. There are two sides always. We need to understand both the sides. IQ cannot be instilled on someone’s mind.
I strongly feel that most of the system evolved long back. We simply do not want to change. I am ashamed that even certain laws have been there since those ages of colonisation. Most of them should be looked into according to the latest demand in the country. Politicians should stop framing rules according to their convenience.
Every system in our country has been made complex. Politicians depend on the vote bank. Unless all the people vote for kicking out those reservation system, those things will exist. This will never happen until everyone becomes literate. Our Governments should strive towards mass literacy. I really wonder whether any Government will take such actions.
We always lack in encouraging people to think and our politicians act according to the wave in the country. Bashing of certain communities will stop once it becomes stale. There had been opposition of other languages, then bashing of communities, in few regional parties initial popularity. It is going to be sixty years since independence, and time for the Governments and Political leaders to think about a uniform system which will be good for everyone.
December 30th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
@the talkative man
first u siad i am not talking to the point. let me tell you something. i am not talking about the rights and wrongs of reservation alone.
I am also talking abt the perceived ack of intelligence among the backward classes.
>denigrating words like better
i’m sorry i dont consider myself to be that good in english so i do use such denigrating words.
December 30th, 2005 at 6:14 pm
@balaji sir
unmai dhaan.vera ennatha solla?
December 30th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
PK,
Neutral na..rendu side lerndhum analyze panradhu. A Neutral person can voice his opinion and it would still be neutral if he does not show a bias towards one section. Neutral aalu pesaama irukkanum nu avasiyam ille :). Ella vaadhangalayum consideration la eduthurukkeenga nu thonichu..adhaaan sonnen !
May 24th, 2006 at 11:00 am
Really I dont think this willaffect the OC/brahmins, they are just too intelligent to let themselves be sidelined, these oc fellows have a lot of money and are becoming a global community like the jews. I am an OBC thevar in TN, people talk about TN doing well in reservations, well to the dissapointment of many, this has almost entirely been fuelled by the iyers and iyengars. Just look at all the top software companies and doctors , very few non-brahmins, for heavens sake , even karunanidhi’s tax lawyers and accountants are iyengars.
Nice work, the OBC’s have been further sidelined. Just wait and watch what happens, 90% of the faculty in IITs and IIMs are brahmins they will sideline us in the institutes and humiliate us any way . As the GM of Lucas TVS once said,” even if they do give reservations in private sector I will make sure that they are only sweepers.” Kudos to the UPA you have really made us even more backward, foster hardwork, try to cahnge OBC thought process try to make them study against all odds like the brahmins, that will truly benefit us. Just look around, there are brahmins every where in TN, theyt are just too resilient, by staying away from politics they have ensured that their future depends on themselves and not just these two bit politicians.
December 21st, 2006 at 2:41 am
Hi,
Just wanted to say that off all the posts I have read about reservation, you seem to have made the best points. I am amazed at people who say that Brahmin community are smarter. Even Rajni recently implied this at a function. I wonder why people call this guy intelligent?! one is not intelligent just by belonging to a certain community. It is called conditioning. For thousands of years, Brahmins have been allowed to be intellectually conditioned while other communities have been barred. Especially the backward community and women, even Brahmin women. If women in Brahmin communities are looked at as smart today, then what about the rest of the population. They have been restricted to just physical and mundane work. If OBC/BC people come to realize the importance of education and are given as fair and great an opportunity for good education from an early age, good students will certainly champion with merit.
I see a lot of attack on reservation by the Brahmin community, but they are quiet on all the other abuses other communities get on all other fronts.
The only way to equality is by freeing all minds of superiority. Today, in most aspects, the common practices of so called Hinduism, is outdated and immaterial, as far as social customs go.
December 23rd, 2006 at 1:32 am
kajan
thanks
April 13th, 2007 at 1:53 am
whether U like it or not, brahmins are superior in intelligent than other castes…call it herditary, avaialability of facilities whetever. Know 1 thing? All the advoates & doctors of the dravidian politicians are brahmins.
Mu.ka’s personal ohysician was Dr.Ramamurthy, he learnt yoga from B.K.S Iyengar, his lawyers are brahmins.
why, periyar’s houses in erode are rented out to brahmins..periyar used to say “parpaan thaan ozhunga vadagai kodupaan”.
Periyar married maniyammai only at the behest of rajaji, his best friend (brahmin).
April 15th, 2007 at 12:43 am
smitha,
I know so many dumb ppl who belong to the so called brahmin community!
As i have mentioned in my post, intelligence is a term which carries wider meaning that dravidian politicans having lawyers as advocates!
Regarding housing, the worst experience i’ve ever had as a landlord was when a brahmin was occupying my house!
FYI, i’ve let the property to a christian who takes good care of the property and who pays rent on time!
April 9th, 2008 at 9:33 am
If reservation is not going to help development, answer the following (Just for debate)
1. Why should Brahmins ask for reservation for themselves during British Raj ? Why did they not just “compete” with the British for the Clerk’s posts ?
2. How does certain states which went the path of reservation develop faster than the states that did not ?
3. What happens if we go global altogether filling up of vacancies instead of only for Indians in India ? If this is too much to ask what happens if all the state govenments open up the jobs for everyone in India ? Are you aware that only Southern States will bag all employment ? Will the Brahmins from underdeveloped states stand a chance to a Non-Brahmin in developed states ?
April 9th, 2008 at 9:37 am
Smitha,
“Periyar married maniyammai only at the behest of rajaji, his best friend (brahmin).” Looks like you lied to us before. I saw the movie periyar ! Rajaji is just consulted. But Periyar married Maniammai AGAINST Rajaj’s advice. Check the history books.
April 9th, 2008 at 9:42 am
In my view : Reservation is an important tool that works . It attacks the very foundation of Caste System which attempts to bring Static stratas in society. My only concern is it must reach everyone rather than the repeat avails of a few. I know a Dalit who was a teacher and his 8 children are all Doctors from a world renouned Medical college. Now if we find a way to make his family serve the other Dalits then reservation has more than worked, in my view.
April 9th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Andy
My views on reservation remain the same. thanks for your comments