H1B dilemma - a Resident Indian’s perspective
I’ve been reading about stuff on H1b every so often in rediff and other portals. Recent one being this
Let me try to put some stuff for the dummies.
The whole campaign can be classified into two lobbies - pro H1 and anti - H1.
Pro H1:
- Companies like Microsoft, Google, Cisco and the innovation challenged bloke called Bill Gates
- Companies like Wipro, TCS, Infy (they are the cause of major controversy and to some extent justifiably so)
Anti H1:
- A body called CIS and some professors who analyze endless reams of data.
- Some senators who feel that H1 visa holders are next only to biological warfare and so should be stopped from entering US.
At the center of the storm is the candidate who is having a garland in his neck, not sure if it’s the one before wedding or sacrifice for a village God (Bali Aadu).
The candidate can be of two types – one is the typical grad school passout in US. He had already gone through hurdles like GRE, TOEFL, probable student loan,writing SoPs, getting the offer of Admission - IR20 err I20 (Sorry got confused with a commodity which is getting increasingly precious). And last but not the least, the mood of the Visa Officer in US consulate.
The other situation is a typical bachelor’s degree holder, with some experience looking for that elusive break which would help him close his home mortgage dues faster before his mortgage turns sub-prime. Though I reckon joining a start-up in Bangalore is a not a bad option than taking a job in recession prone US.
The Pro H1 party says there is a huge gap in the availability of skilled labor for techie jobs in US and that they are outsourcing because of that. The Anti H1 party argues that all this brouhaha of ’skilled worker’ is all just an eye wash to bring in low cost workers into the great America and pollute the land with infidels, or something to that effect.
They are basically like DMK and ADMK. Each have their own political reasons and business reasons for fighting it out. In the end, the powerful lobby wins.
If I were to decide on this issue, I would say those who completed their masters in US should be completely exempted from this quota. It is not fair on the ones who took the pain of going through all the hassle a student goes through, only to find its all driven by a number and lottery game.
Pitting them against the 2nd category folks for basically the same number of quotas (okay, maybe 20,000 more but hardly any difference) only creates unnecessary animosity between the two without solving the problem of the US corporate or the American economy at large or the US senators.
The second category of workers should be allowed visa based on their education/experience/skill sets, the offer of employment they hold and the demand for such professionals in US. Admittedly, this is trickier than the first but no less important.
For e.g My friend Madhu, may not be a Master’s Grad in US, but having known him well, I think it would be unfair to him and his potential employer to lose out on Madhu just because of the H1 issue if he chooses to apply for one. Classic lose-lose situation.
I think the USCIS and the other stake holders should take a long, hard look into this and come out with a better design for the whole H1B process so that their country gets the candidates they need and those who abuse the system are deprived of their advantages. One step in the right direction was rejecting multiple filings. But more needs to be done.
The whole fixed numbers game (be it 65,000 or 79,999 or whatever) is simplistic while trying to be simple. I agree that every system will have its own shortcomings, but having a numerical cap on such a sensitive issue betrays a laziness to think and analyze more than anything else. Topping it off with a random selection process is beyond words. I am sure our planning commission can come out with a better system than that.
It’s another matter that most of the desi bloggers in US who may have a much better view don’t talk about such mess by the US government in their blogs. They are happy with their status reports on how many street lights were not glowing in Pazhavandhaangal when they last visited. I am scared to write about NRI’s nowadays so let me not get there.
April 29th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
ennavo.. engalukku nalla dhaan solreenga!!
April 30th, 2008 at 12:34 am
I believe it’s time to stop this H1 visas totally. Maybe its due to self interest…but heck…people like me who want to live here want to have a job ! Most H1-B’s I’ve heard and I feel too … don’t deserve to be here - if you go by their true experience in IT. It is mostly Fake !!!
I am sure the Desis will feel the same ways..if people start coming from other countries and take away their jobs. ( People inside India already feel unsecure about of the influx of people from out of state! …!!! ).
UCSIS and the policies have to be totally revamped. For now…it’s in pathetic shape.
April 30th, 2008 at 1:12 am
PK, ellame maayaai appa!
will not say more in comment section.. will send you an email instead..
April 30th, 2008 at 5:15 am
Ganesh,
I know this is a tricky issue but keeping mum or doing nothing about complicated issues is not apparently helping anyone.
April 30th, 2008 at 5:15 am
Priya
Enaku sari nu thoninadhai solren
April 30th, 2008 at 6:27 am
NV sir,
I’ve mailed you
I agree USCIS needs to redesign its processes.
I may not agree with H1b being abolished. I think there are some inherent advantages in allowing temp workers become a resident of US - both for the US, US corporates and for those who want to settle down in US.
Globalization, free market nu sollitu ‘Engalukku velai poidum’ na it sounds pretty much the same as what communists say about selling Coke, Hollywood cinema in India. I am sure you would not have said the same 5 years back as well.
April 30th, 2008 at 6:28 am
Sundar,
Got the mail. Thanks
April 30th, 2008 at 9:26 am
PK - I have to add. Stop the mess of Giving H1’s by lottery. Screen more and be careful of scam artists. People who don’t deserve to be in ‘Globalization’ come via H1B. People with ‘** for Dummies’ in their hands come here and work as experienced programmers taking the pride of the Indian community slowly but steadiliy.
Attitude of people who come here has also changed dramatically over the ages….not sure why. Today, the young ones who come here feel that America is in the receiving end..when they actually come here for the $$. ( for what? I don’t know really..what’s missing in India).
Companies fleece the desi H1B employees + as a result locals here including people like us get screwed.
You and me know each other since 2005…but I’ve been talking like this for a while now. I believe in quality workers. When I see average folks getting lucky thanks to lottery…and come here!! It hurts.
April 30th, 2008 at 9:44 am
Narayanan sir, agreed that below par lot also get H1B but how does stopping lottery system help in filtering such people? Should the companies themselves do the filtering? Trying to judge the competency at a visa office level should very vague and kind of implausible.
April 30th, 2008 at 9:44 am
NV sir,
I agree about the lottery joke by USCIS as I have already mentioned in the post.
Attitude of some who come to US is one thing, abolishing the program because of that is completely different.
If X number of people who come to US is bad, that does not mean all those who come to US are bad. Adhai dhaan solren…
I am sure the market mechanism is resilient enough to ensure that only the quality folks survive and the rest flee in the long run.
April 30th, 2008 at 9:52 am
Ravi - PK - I SAID ‘ STOP THE LOTTERY’ !…
Quote - PK - I have to add. Stop the mess of Giving H1’s by lottery. Screen more and be careful of scam artists.
PK - I’ve been in software since 1984..pardon me about bragging…though I have the rights.
The X number you mention ….is unfornately in the higher side..I would say 70-80%. How do I know?
April 30th, 2008 at 10:26 am
NV sir
I think we are both on the same page here reg. lottery and undeserving guys should not get.
>>Ravi - PK - I SAID ‘ STOP THE LOTTERY’ !…
I agree.
>>I’ve been in software since 1984..pardon me about bragging…though I have the rights.
I don’t deny this. You are very senior to us and I acknowledge this.
>>The X number you mention ….is unfortunately in the higher side.
May be its true. That does not provide sufficient grounds to deny visa to people who seek H1B.
April 30th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
NV sir,
I hope my personal rapport is not lost with you because of some arguments over a blog post. I reiterate this is just my 2 cents. The only point where u and me do not agree is the outright denial of H1 as u suggested in your initial comment unless i am missing something.
April 30th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Ravi
IMHO, the way UK handles it is atleast ‘trying’ to address the core factors - education, experience, current annual salary, current age etc. these are much better than the ‘kukukkal murai’ followed by US. The only hitch in the UK system is that you can enter the country without a firm job offer under the HSMP or its new equivalent. Maybe the US need not be so liberal and can insist on a job offer from a good company whose records are clean in INS. I dont know..any good system should evolve and definitely takes more effort and vigil.
April 30th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Hi PK…!
Never..Never!! Rest assured. You have your opinion, I have mine! It’s healthy to argue. All fun!
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:28 am
Your honour, Ungal mun indha saatchiyai vaikiren:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU
That is proof enough that the whole system has been gamed.
Would we be so generous if companies here brought in techies from China, Sri Lanka etc. ? I simply cannot understand this whole business of claiming entry into the US as if it were a fundamental right.
“I am scared to write about NRI’s nowadays so let me not get there.”
Ahaa. This has become a topic that agitates me a lot these days. Naan koodu idhu pathi oru somewhat related post .. hehe
http://broken-news.blogspot.com/2007/07/foreign-returned-you-can-only-take-man.html
“Though I reckon joining a start-up in Bangalore is a not a bad option than taking a job in recession prone US.”
Actually I have gained quite a bit of experience with startups recently. In general it is safe to say that if you join an American startup in India, you are not going to be a millionaire anytime soon. Except maybe if you are one of the founders. Most stock option agreements are designed to give you about a year’s salary worth (with all the options vested). Everything is loaded in the employer’s favour and people in India(such as myself) have little or no understanding of how these schemes work. The IPO route is practically dead, so its either a merger or a buyout. Please keep in mind that not all stocks will vest. Suppose they give you 15,000 stocks with an initial vesting of 5000 and thereafter 750 quarterly - imagine the amount of time you have to spend in that company and all that for an year’s salary! You can actually gain that amount in most cases by simply switching jobs.
My experience with startup stock options in India, especially ones founded by NRIs, US based ones and such - Please don’t drink the Paul Graham kool-aid too much. He is talking about companies with not more than 3 founders.
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:52 pm
BNB,
I was talking to a consultant and he was like, ‘Last year neraya per H1 vangitu, they decided to stay put in India…’
Because of the salary levels here.
70K USD sambalam vangi, adhile 30 % tax katti, micham pannra kaasu la 60-70% india la sambalam kedaikum, as an added benefit you can see your relatives and friends every weekend, have butter/podi dosai at will ..
idhellam perks for some.
If H1 is we claim as a fundamental right, then i know some who did not exercise their fundamental right..
So if america is not attractive enough and say Australia gets better, many would go there.. it all depends la?
Would we be so generous if companies here brought in techies from China, Sri Lanka etc?
That depends on who I am. If I see opportunities eroding here and opening up else where, sure i would not mind.
The problem for some americans is that they’ve never had to move out of a place bcos of lack of opportunities.
Ennoda office la engalai recruit panna oru vellaikaaran vandhan.. prior to that he never even had a US passport. Will he understand the complexities of H1? Hell no!!
Anyways..
reg. start-ups, i never thought abt stocks.. adhu enna RIL stock a? i dont see the stock of a start up as something precious. being acquired by google laam fantasy.. kedaicha super..illai naalum sambalam vandha seri..
Neraya start ups la funding irukaradhu naale they pay quite well.. atleast till the funding stops :D.. much better than wipro, infy and TCS s of the world.. adhai dhaan sonnen
May 4th, 2008 at 1:22 am
The only reason Im in the US is that as per Indian companies ‘high standard’ of recruitment, Im unfit for employment. (No excellent academic record, and am just a BCom, even though 15 years experience).
The joke is however that I get to do work here that is of higher standard and importance and cannot or should not be outsourced/offshored
Nobody here bothers of my academic achievements or lack of it. They judge me solely on what I deliver. Therefore I gain respect and dignity.
After a stint in the US, I did go back to India. I was forced to come back as I couldn’t get decent employment .
May 4th, 2008 at 6:29 am
Mahesh
me too in the same club vis-a-vis academics and marks. i managed to get a break in the IT industry though, primarily bcos my expertise was different. Overall, i can relate to what you say..
Even today, my qualification would not be recognised by the biggest IT companies in India.. but apparently is sufficient for bay area internet firms..whatever…
May 4th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Mahesh/Prabhu,
Adhey Adhey. Some of the best American techies I have worked with have been non-engineers. Anga dhaan America Kaaran nikkaran. At least in the sw industry, esp. startups, the environment is lot more meritocratic in the US. it’s these intangible soft factors that add up and result in America’s supremacy in this area. But namma oorula, the question is exclusively addressed in terms of tax concessions, technology parks, engineering degrees etc.
Prabhu, regarding the changing salary scenario india vs US, here’s an interesting article:
http://www.atc.tcs.co.in/sagar/topsy
May 5th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
Good diversion to the topic. I like it and it’s very true. ‘Non engineers’, I am working with quite a few of them around me.